• Michael Islander "There are so many non-dualistic masters of the east and also from the west who expound Advaitic or non-dualistic knowledge, but none of them, are helpful to reach the ultimate end."


    Who's to say the manner in which the teaching appears to the student?

    Without the dualistic perspective of the seeker there would be no purpose for the teaching and thus it would not exist, either appearing through a human form or that of a mountain.

  • Santthosh Kumaar I respect your views and wisdom. 


    As per my conviction. 

    All our discussions are within the duality. The duality is a reality only in ignorance. The universe of course is illusory, but there is consciousness, that exists, forming the very substratum of all things (illusion or universe). All Advaitic teaching based on the dualistic perspective will keep in the realm of the illusory form, time and space. Self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana is based on the soul, the innermost self leads to Advaitic awareness in the midst of the duality. That is unity in diversity. 
    _/|\_
      :)))
    Love, respect and gratitude
    Take care

  • Michael Islander Agreed, all discussion, words, are within duality. What they may 'point to' might be understood as, 'Conscious is all, even in appearance as the dualistic perspective'. Or, as in the Buddhist saying, "Samara IS nirvana".

    What is real that will be 'kept' in the "realm of illusory form"?
    Is not all there is, including illusions, manifestation of the "soul"(Universal Consciousness)?
    When you say "innermost self", is there something that it is contained within that is other than the Self?

  • Santthosh Kumaar Thank you for your input and I respect your wisdom 


    As per my conviction:~ 

    Thinker, Thoughts, words and the world in which we exist is created of single stuff. That single stiff is the soul or the consciousness. Thus, everything is made of the same single stuff. Knowledge of the single stuff leads to Advatic self-awareness. Advaitic self awareness is nirvana. Thus, the consciousness is alone is real and eternal. And, the world in which we exist is unreal and impermanent. Thus the knowledge of the single stuff is the self-knowledge or Brahma Gnana or Atma Gnana. 

    The soul or consciousness, the innermost self is the witness-consciousness that experiences the action, the actor, and the world of separate things. It is like a light that illuminates everything in a theatre, revealing the master of ceremonies, the guests, and the dancers with complete impartiality. Even when they all depart, the light shines to reveal their absence. : ~ Santthosh Kumaar

  • Michael Islander Is not the separation of the "real and eternal" from the "unreal and impermanent" dualism? Are not both, one, Consciousness and its' "stuff"?

    Is not the light that "shines to reveal their absence" the same light that reveals their presence?

  • Santthosh Kumaar The duality is present as reality till the ignorance is there. The ignorance vanishes the soul remains in its own awareness. On the standpoint of the soul, the innermost self, there is no second thing exists other than the soul,which is present in the form of the spirit. Thus the spirit alone is. And everything is spirit. 

    The unreal(universe) is created out of the real(soul or spirit).

  • Michael Islander Why say "innermost" when also saying "no second thing exists other than the soul"? What is 'outermost' other than Soul itself?


    Why call the universe "unreal" if it is simply the Soul in manifest form?
    It seems the only thing that could be said to be 'unreal' is the notion that what is manifest is permanent, or timeless, where even the notion itself is impermanent. But then I find myself saying, " 'Who' is saying even that? ". 

  • Santthosh Kumaar We are discussing within the dualistic illusion. The discussion is possible only in the domain of the duality. The worlds are only for communication purpose. There is no second thing exists, because everything is spirit. That means the thoughts, the thoughts, the words and the world in which we exist are also nothing but the spirit. But when the spirit alone is, how can " duality " remain? Only spirit remains, not duality. But there is no other way to express it.

    The spirit is always there, only the transient ‘duality’ comes and goes.

  • Santthosh Kumaar Suppose the same subject, if we are discussing in the dream and one asks me the same questions in the dream, then whatever we are discussing in the dream becomes unreal, when the waking takes place. Whatever we are discussing now, we are discussing within the waking experience. The waking is unreal on the base of the formless witness, which is the soul,which is the spirit.


    The reality is beyond thoughts and words. The words have meaning in duality. Duality exists until mind exists. The mind exists where there is division of form, time and space. If there is no division of form, time and space, then there is no mind. Words are used as a tool to name individual objects and feelings within the duality. 

    The words become meaningless when one becomes aware of the formless substance of the mind, which is the consciousness. The consciousness is our innermost self. From the standpoint of our innermost self, the mind is mere mirage. If mind is a mere mirage, then the form, time and space are mere mirage. If form, time and space are a mere mirage than the thoughts and words which arises within the scope of form, time and space are also part and parcel of that mirage. Thus body, ego, words, thoughts, and whatever the contents of the universe are within the mirage created out of single stuff that is the consciousness. Thus, it is necessary to know 'What is the nature of the mind?' and 'What is the substance of the mind?' and 'What is the source of the mind?', in order to realize the words are meaningless in the realm of truth.

    The world is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.

    Peoples approach is more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they take it as real. That is why all the confusion. 

    That is why Sage Sri, Sankara says: ~ VC-63. Without causing the objective universe to vanish and without knowing the truth of the Self, how is one to achieve Liberation by the mere utterance of the word Brahman? — It would result merely in an effort of speech.
    VC~ 65. As a treasure hidden underground requires (for its extraction) competent instruction, excavation, the removal of stones and other such things lying above it and (finally) grasping, but never comes out by being (merely) called out by name, so the transparent Truth of the self, which is hidden by Maya and its effects, is to be attained through the instructions of a knower of Brahman, followed by reflection, meditation and so forth, but not through perverted arguments.

  • Michael Islander Are you a "knower of Brahman"?


    "The world is both real and unreal. It is real because it is a manifestation of consciousness, but is unreal, in the sense, that it is not absolute and eternal like consciousness itself.

    Peoples approach is more practical, and they stuck with the reality of the world, they take it as real. That is why all the confusion."

    Thus we have mutually stated. 
    Your many words around this essence invite confusion through intellectual/philosophical conceptualizing as well as the necessity of ferreting out the misleading use of the words, even though unintentional on your part. An "effort of speech"?
    I hope to be avoiding a "perverted argument" as much energy has already been exhausted on such pursuits.

  • Santthosh Kumaar Thank you. Very kind of you.


    I respect your views and opnions. 

    As per my conviction:~

    Intellectuality belongs to individuality. Individuality belongs to the duality, whereas the soul, the innermost self is not an individual. Deeper self-search leads, one to the reality beyond form, time and space. 

    So, in future we will use the language without the words in our discussion.

    Take care 
    _/|\_
      :)))
    11 hrs · Like
  • Santthosh Kumaar